Knowledge Expansion

Insights: Navigating to value-based outcomes – a patient-first approach


Provider Compensation

Value-Based Operations

Practice Efficiency

In this episode, we’re joined by Thom Walsh, PhD, healthcare consultant and professor at The Dartmouth Institute and University of Tulsa. Walsh previously appeared on the podcast after releasing his first book on value-based care in partnership with MGMA back in 2017 and returns for another lively discussion now that his second edition — “Navigating to Value-Based Outcomes” — has officially hit the shelves. 

You can purchase or preview the book by visiting

Don't quite have time to listen to the entire episode? No worries. We've compiled a handful of highlights from Walsh's interview for your convenience: 
  • (9:05) "I think value-based care means that we’re measuring outcomes that matter to patients. That’s the key first thing that we’re getting at. Oftentimes, as healthcare providers and healthcare delivery systems, we get caught up in our own administrative and medical outcomes – and that’s great. But talking with somebody who’s diabetic about their A1C level, for example, doesn’t really catch for them and doesn’t really get at the heart of trying to figure out what their needs and wants are in order to be able to take better care of themselves. And when we’re not measuring those things, we just focus on a medical outcome or an administrative outcome, and it disconnects us from actually caring for patients."
    (17:50) "I think it’s vital that as people that are in healthcare, we kind of take some responsibility for addressing the fact that our costs are out of control. Patients go broke trying to get healthcare that they need. Communities who are self-insured aren’t able to fill potholes and hire teachers, do other things, because their premiums are rising so rapidly. So, this is a problem that’s really taken over some aspects of our economy and country, and I think it’s those of us that are in it that need to do something about it."
    (25:50) "Our parents become patients. Our kids become patients. We become patients. Most of us have either personally or we know of a story where healthcare did not go well for someone. Sometimes in some really distressing ways. So, bringing it down to the idea that we are trying to create better systems and processes to be able to care for someone you may know. As mushy as that might sound, that is often the place that brings people together."
    (28:02) "I think that there’s too much data. There’s just too much, and it’s hard to make heads or tails of it sometimes. Given that, you’d think we have all of our bases covered – but we don’t. We still don’t have good information in real time about what matters to patients, and the only way that you can get that is to ask."

Here are some links and references related to this week’s show: 
You can learn any and everything about value-based care at MGMA’s Annual Conference, Oct. 13-16 in New Orleans. Visit for more info and to register. 

If you like the show, please rate and review it wherever you get your podcasts. We love hearing from listeners about the show. If you have topics you’d like us to cover or experts you’d like us to interview, email us at

MGMA Insights is presented by Craig Wiberg, Rob Ketcham, Decklan McGee and Daniel Williams. 

Thanks to MGMA 19 Live for sponsoring this episode of MGMA Insights. For more information or to register for the only way to receive The Annual Conference experience from your home or office, visit

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